The following Featured Post comes from TV Series Group 11, Thread 11.

1. Why Is The Number of White Women/Black Men Relationships So Much Higher Than Black Women/White Men?
Sat, Sep 25, 1999 - 2:26 PM/EST
hill

I am truly baffled as to why there are so many more white women/black men relationships than black women/white men relationships. I am not even going to list my theories here because I would like to get your ideas without you feeling you have to respond to what I have written. I really would like some feedback on this issue. Thanks.

2. HELLO TO ALL!
Sat, Sep 25, 1999 - 3:36 PM/EST
ancientapple

Hill, in response to your question: I have my own ideas as to why this is. I think in general women tend to be more compassionate people (not that men can't be.) I think we are more open and less afriad of straying from cultural norms. I think men are much more prone to socital pressures. Of course these are generalizations and there are always exceptions.

3. Response to hill
Sun, Sep 26, 1999 - 11:49 PM/EST
britt

Well, this is my opinion: history, history, HISTORY! Over 2/3 of this country's history involves slavery. During slavery, as I'm sure you're well aware, the occurence of white slaveowners raping their black female slaves and biracial daughters was extremely common. I think there grew such a hatred of white men, especially representing slavery and the whole power structure, in general, that it became taboo for black women and white men to be involved.

In many cases, though, black men were beaten or killed for even looking at a white woman, so I'm not really sure why so many black men are with white women. That's a lot of history to get over, too.

Maybe it's because we, as women, can somewhat understand a piece of what discrimination feels like (although that is in no means saying that we understand what black men go through every day) so we can be understanding, but a white man has literally no idea what that feels like, because he is at the top of the ladder or food chain or whatever you want to call it. Who knows? Just throwing out a few suggestions.....

6. Brain Washed!!!
Mon, Sep 27, 1999 - 12:05 PM/EST
ravenc1

I believe some black men have such a warped sense of who they really are. During slavery their identity was totally stripped from them. I've heard some black men talk about why they date white women and they say black women have an attitude problem and give them too much lip. In their mind white women act the total opposite.

They do as they say and really i think that means when they tell them to bend over they do so. Not only that but i also think it's an economic status they think they are reaching. White women are usually associated with money and class where as black women are usually associated with section 8 and five kids with five different fathers at the age of 16. I say this only in saying what i think they believe. In no way do i believe this.

7. black/white relationships
Mon, Sep 27, 1999 - 1:01 PM/EST
kjsmama

I think ancientapple is absolutely right that it comes down to compassion. Women ARE discriminated against, so there's a basic level of understanding that's available for WW/BM couples. As to the reverse, my GUESS is that it's a societal norm. WW are "allowed" to think that BM are sexy, think athletes and male models, while the messages targeted to single men are thin white lingerie models. Why would a WM look to a BW when that's not what they are "supposed" to think is good-looking or sexy (and neither are their friends, who are, in my experience, often the litmus test to a successful relationship, perhaps even more than women's friends).

My hope, however naive, is that people will begin to see each other for what is really there and not for base their experience on the media messages we receive.

As to ravenc1's belief that WW "bend over" for BM, I have to say that my (black) husband would never treat any woman with disrespect or expect that they would bend to his will, mostly because of his awesome mom. Teach and they will learn.

9. Response to ravenc1
Mon, Sep 27, 1999 - 4:12 PM/EST
britt

I agree with you, that for some black men, white women is the ultimate ideal, or whatever. It's like the movie "Jungle Fever," when Lonette McKee tells Wesley Snipes that he dated lighter and lighter until he got himself a white woman. I have also heard many black men say that black women are "too strong, too opinionated, too independent, too whatever..." and that white women will just do whatever they want, give them their credit cards, let them walk all over tham and not think twice.

That is not all relationships, but I know this goes on a lot. That is one of the reasons I detest the stereotype of the "typical" black male/white female relationship, where she is rebelling against her parents and venturing into the exotic realm, and he is just looking for a bank and a free car. I have to disprove that a lot, and another stereotype is that the white one wants to be black and the black one wants to be white...nonsense. Well, maybe for some, but not for me, my boyfriend, or most of my friends.

10. Denial?
Tue, Sep 28, 1999 - 1:11 PM/EST
seattle

It is interesting to me that the majority of people posting are white women in interracial relationships or parents of biracial children seemingly wanting validation or feel the need to defend there relationships.

I have lived in a military town outside of Seattle for the last 10 years and interracial relations are very common here. Although I hate to generalize people, my experience has overwhelmingly been the same. I have had conversations with many white women, because of the work I do and have been inside the homes of many of these women as well as had some exposure to interracial relationships in my own family.

Now, I'm sure I will get verbally attacked for saying this but usually you find, broken black men with identity issues and white women who are rebelling or have been rejected by white men in these relationships. White women usually expect to be preferred and black men are looking to find something that isn't there. You heard Bill say it in the film, "black boys spend all there time trying to figure out how to bed a white woman", I don't agree with that statement (and know many brother's who'd disaggree too) but why would he say it?

After white women have kids with black men, how many white men would be willing to raise black or "bi-racial" children?

Prejudice is in all of us, more than any of us want to admit. Society's message has not changed much over the years, black still equals bad, ugly, inferior etc. and you have many of us still dealing with issues of self-hate and ignorance about our history and culture. In my opinion, we have too much work to do within our race to focus on relationships outside. We all know you must love yourself before you can love anybody else, don't be fooled ladies.

11. How To Make White Men Appealing To White Women
Wed, Sep 29, 1999 - 12:18 PM/EST
hill

I do not believe some white women would seek out
black men if white men were kind, compassionate,
appealing, and loving to these women. Just because
white men are in power does not mean that they
should not be held accountable for their actions.
White women who seek out black men because of
white men inadequacies should get together and
confront white men about their behavior and/or
lack of appeal. I am sure that some white men
would make an effort to change if for no other
reason than to keep white women out of the
hands of black men.

12. Response to hill
Wed, Sep 29, 1999 - 2:29 PM/EST
britt

Do you honestly think that white men are THAT concerned with whether or not certain white women are interested in dating black men...enough to CHANGE THEMSELVES??? I think that is a bit naive. Men in general are comfortable and not interested in changing themselves just so a few women who didn't look at them before would give them a chance now...plus, I wouldn't date a guy if I knew he was only dating me to keep me "out of some black guy's hands."

13. Response to Britt
Thu, Sep 30, 1999 - 7:36 AM/EST
hill

Yes, I do admit that I am naive as far as white
men are concerned. But I do know that the only
way to solve any problem is through honest
communication. Does it not bother you that
white men do not care about what you think? Maybe
if some white women would spend their energy and
time helping white men to become caring human
beings and less time running after black men, our
country and world might be a better place.

14. Resonse to hill
Thu, Sep 30, 1999 - 7:52 AM/EST
britt

Why do you think that white women "run after black men?" What about the other way around? Why is it white women's fault that there are interracial relationships? It takes two to tango, and I'm sure if black men were not interested, it would be a different story.

I do not happen to chase black men down and beg them to date me...if my boyfriend and I should happen to break up, I won't go running around town looking for my next black victim!
As I've said before, I have dated both white and black men, and will probably do so again.
Oh, and how do you think the shape of the country would change if there were not interracial dating?

15. Response to Britt #14
Thu, Sep 30, 1999 - 11:02 AM/EST
hill

Before I answer the questions you raised, I most
comment on your seemingly total lack of concern
for the plight of white men. It is a fact that
most white men do not go outside of their race for
companionship. So who else but the white woman
can possibly help the white man to become a more
caring and compassionate human being. Now to
answer your questions. Question 1: Why do I think
white women run after black men? I did not say
white women, I said "some" white women.

Unfortunately, I have seen some white women make
shameful spectacles of themselves in their effort
to attract black men. I have even been approached
by white women asking me if I would help them findblack men to date.

Question 2: What about black
men running after white women? You are correct
that some black men do run after white women. But,
I have never observed any noble reasons for thechase.

Question 3: Why is it white women's fault
that there are interracial relationships? I do
not perceive interracial relationships as a fault.
I was speaking about the white woman who dated
black men because white men had not been receptiveto her needs.

Question 4: How do I think the
shape of the country would change if there were
not interracial dating? If white women, who date
black men because they are dissatisfied with the
treatment received by white men, put their energy
into improving the lot of white men who rule this
country, I believe the benefits for all of uswould be great.

Black women are not thought of
too highly in this world. But, as a black woman,
I know that if a black man needs help in any area
of his life, there is a black woman who will be
there for him. I believe the most precious gift
that women bring to this planet is our compassion
and care for life. Women have a great
responsibility to impart these gifts to our boys
and men so we can create an environment where
these conversations will no longer be necessary.

16. response to hill #15
Thu, Sep 30, 1999 - 12:25 PM/EST
annetta

Hill, would I be right if I guessed that you
are just totally fed up with biracial dating,
or just black men/white women dating? I know
how you feel. I can understand people getting
together(all people)for companionship and what-
ever. But what I'm against, is going after any
race just because you think that you are going
to be any better off than you were before.

Example: I know a black woman who only dates
white men because she said black men don't know
how to treat women. I know a mexican guy who
only dates black women, because he says they
are better in bed. I know a white guy who dates
only black women because he says he likes the
contrast in skin color and the darker the better.
I know black men who only date white women for
for what they can get and vice versa, this is what I'm talking about.

I guess I'm against
the stereotypes. I know trying to find someone
is difficult, and if you meet a nice person and
they just happen to be another race well then
more power to you. But let that be the reason.

Alexis Dent: I am torn between the progressiveness I naturally pursue and the regressive nature of a society that still makes me feel 'less black' for dating a white man

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I walked down the cereal aisle in the grocery store, determined to finish my shopping list. As I skimmed my eyes across the rows of boxes, I landed on what I was looking for: a jumbo box of Rice Krispies.

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“Good choice,” a deep, bellowing voice confirmed. I turned around and saw a handsome black man waiting patiently, with a cart full of groceries and a warm smile that briefly invigorated my tired spirit after a long day of work. He was wearing a professional outfit, leather dress shoes and a brown wool houndstooth coat with the collar popped. I smiled and apologized for holding him up.

“No problem,” he reassured me with a kind nod.

This encounter was nothing unusual; I frequently have similar encounters with strangers at the grocery store. However, as I strolled past this man’s cart full of baby wipes, pull-up diapers, fresh fruit and his own box of Rice Krispies, I felt an immense amount of guilt.

I am a black woman who has never dated a black man, and most days I don’t think twice about that. But sometimes, like when I encounter a well-dressed family man with a mutual love for certain breakfast cereals, I wonder if I am failing my people.

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After all, 50 years ago in many states it was still illegal for us to marry anyone who was not also black. The gravity of that is not lost on me. Although race relations are still far from perfect, I acknowledge the steps toward inclusion that we’ve made. Nevertheless, I still feel that, by not dating black men, I’m neglecting the shared history, solidarity and future prosperity of my fellow people.

As a young girl and even throughout college, I was frequently annoyed when my peers would suggest that I would magically find a partner if I exclusively pursued black men. White guys will never love you like black guys, they would say. I resented those comments, believing that my love should not be bound to the colour of my skin or anyone else’s.

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Even when I have expressed romantic interest in black guys, it has always been a futile effort. That was perhaps the most frustrating aspect of my well-meaning friends’ advice. My experiences date back as early as middle school, when I was infatuated with a black classmate for three years. That all came to a screeching halt when he, fully aware of my crush on him, teased me in front of my friends at my 13th birthday party.

I was 19 the first time a man of colour actually expressed halfhearted interest in me; he was a biracial friend who repeatedly asked me out and then repeatedly forced me to pay for these dates. Meanwhile, throughout high school and college, the few black men I knew found my blackness as subpar to theirs. I was criticized for my preppy wardrobe and my music tastes, and on more than one occasion I was accused of wanting to be white.

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As time passed, I realized that being black didn’t mean I had to look or act a certain way. I could love my skin and also love Britney Spears and country music. Blackness isn’t homogeneous, but it took me a while to see that.

As a black woman, I wanted to be seen as attractive to more than just black men. This wasn’t simply because I’ve always believed in inclusivity, but also because I grew up surrounded by white people. If I waited for a black guy who liked me to apparate out of thin air, I would have waited a decade. But even if my options for black men were limitless, I’ve never viewed attraction as black or white.

Black guys have more easily understood my gripes about my hair or institutional injustice. But I’ve long known that there is no such thing as a perfect partner. I’ve simply focused on finding a great man. Along the way, I’ve dated white guys who wanted to learn about blackness; white guys who pretended my blackness didn’t exist; a Jewish guy who was well-meaning but politically infuriating; and a Honduran man who promptly ditched me for my best friend. None of them have been the right fit for me, but that wasn’t because they weren’t black.

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My best match so far has been a blue-eyed engineer with perfect teeth. More important than his looks are his kind heart and gentle spirit. I’ve gladly shared my version of black love with him. For us, that means learning about each other’s cultures. He teaches me about German beer and soccer chants; I familiarize him with my Caribbean culture and Jamaican cuisine. Together, we like to listen to Lauryn Hill’s music and watch soul-stirring documentaries on incarceration. But the aspect of our love that I’m most grateful for is that I’m finally loved because of my Afro-Caribbean heritage, not in spite of it.

Still, at times I feel ashamed for dating outside my race. I am an ally to my people, but I have not connected with them in the deepest way possible — romantic love. How can I support the advancement of black people if I have never let down my walls for a black man myself?

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It’s not that I am not happy in my current relationship. I am. Rather, I am torn between the progressiveness I naturally pursue and the regressive nature of a society that still makes me feel “less black” for dating a white man.

More On This Topic

1. From winter to fall, when is the most beneficial time to play the field or have a meaningful relationship?

2. Is it okay to Google your date before you meet them?

That day in the grocery store, I stood in the checkout line behind that handsome black man with the Rice Krispies. He was now joined by a small toddler and a very pregnant wife. He embraced his wife and child lovingly as she brought a pint of Ben & Jerry’s to the cart at the last minute.

His wife and I caught eyes, and I flashed her a smile.

I am not dating a black man, and I feel less guilty about it each day. Sometimes the smallest of encounters remind me that love should not be bound by rules, and definitely not by race.

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Let’s face it. Dating — particularly at midlife — isn’t easy. And interracial dating? Well, that can present a steep learning curve that few of us are willing to talk about — especially if you’re a Black woman dating a White man. But given the growing number of interracial dating sites (such as interracialmatch.com and interracialdatingcentral.com) and the fact that interracial marriage within our community has tripled since the 1980s, it’s a conversation whose time has come.

"Interracial dating comes with its own set of challenges, one of them being social bias,” agrees Shantell E. Jamison, a relationship columnist and certified life coach. “When two individuals from different ethnicities decide to enter into a relationship, they must do so with a level of open-mindedness, patience and understanding. Race and cultural differences can compound the difficulties of communication.

“There will be a number of teachable moments, so a willingness to learn and teach is key," she adds.

When I discussed this with Black women, I found that some of those “teachable moments” were not only familiar to me personally (I’ve been in interracial relationships), but they also show up in pop culture. For example, there was the “washcloth debate” between Tichina Arnold and Beth Behrs in a fall 2018 episode of the CBS sitcom The Neighborhood. The Black character is shocked that her White friend never uses a washcloth and the White character is shocked that her friend always does. And in the 1994 film “Corrina, Corrina,” the Black housekeeper played by Whoopi Goldberg completely confounds her White employer and his daughter with her “spicy” recipes.

One woman I spoke to, who’s been married to a White man for nine years, confided: “[Some people outside our culture] don't understand why lotion is a must for us, because we’re preventing ashy skin. You have to teach them these things.” Another, married to her husband for 10 years, was exasperated with “the lack of security consciousness. Like, why are you not locking your doors?!” Another topic that came up often was hair. “[Men of other races] don’t get why we gotta wrap our hair every night, or why you put oil in your hair when they wash oil out. A Black woman saying, ‘I can’t, I gotta wash my hair,” isn’t a blow-off. It’s a literal evening, a full-out commitment!”

Of course, there’s humor in these comments. But, as we talked further, more serious concerns started to emerge. Here are five things the women I spoke to (most of whom asked to remain anonymous) want you to know about developing a serious relationship with a man of a different ethnicity.

1. “Folks may not believe you’re together — even when you’re clearly together.”
This was a point raised by many, and it’s something I’ve experienced myself. I can walk into some places with my white boyfriend and people — particularly white women — will feign ignorance of us being a couple, even if we’re holding hands or he has his arm wrapped around me. And it’s both a funny and insulting experience to be on a date and to have a server hand you the check, like your man isn’t sitting there. Still, it’s not as bad as the story another sister shared of approaching a Black clerk at the DMV with her Asian husband and being told outright that they were “the weirdest couple” the clerk had ever seen.

2. “If you date a white man, some will question your ‘Black card.’ ”
With Sen. Kamala Harris’ entry into the presidential race (her husband is a white man), I’ve been hearing this particularly obnoxious sentiment more often. And it’s interesting that when it’s a Black man who dates outside his race, his “Blackness” is rarely questioned. But when it comes to Black women, in some circles, you may as well wear a scarlet letter. “There’s some significant backlash sometimes,” one woman told me, theorizing that it’s due to “the systemic denial of Black women’s autonomy.”

3. “Just because he’s dating a Black woman doesn’t mean he’s not biased.”
Assess the content of your date’s character and don’t forget to have the DTR (defining the relationship) talk. Of course, there are men out there — of all races — who aren’t looking for a serious relationship or to bring a woman home to meet the parents. But some women talked in hindsight about feeling like the research subject in their non-Black love interest’s interracial dating experiment rather than a serious romantic prospect. I once dated a White man who swore up and down that he loved Black women, and dated us exclusively. Then one day, I stumbled upon a Facebook post of his, discussing how much he loathed Black men. Stunned, I asked him, “What will you do when you have a Black son?” Bizarrely, it seemed not to have occurred to him.

4. “He may not believe you the first time you try to explain a Black experience.”
“It seems obvious that your White partner wouldn’t understand the struggles you deal with as a Black woman,” another woman told me. “But the surprising part is their willingness to give the benefit of the doubt to the offending party [due to not understanding microaggressions]. Or they themselves are the offending party, letting something slip that isn’t intentionally hurtful or racist but still is.”

If you’re dating a non-Black man who’s new to interracial relationships, know that there will be some additional labor on your part. No, it’s not your job. But if you want the relationship to succeed, you’ll have to commit to teaching him. So, be honest. And if he seems dismissive of your concerns, call him on it. In the best-case scenario, as one woman told me: “He will develop more empathy and awareness than he knew possible, because his job is to support, honor and protect you.”

5. “You’ll learn firsthand about white male privilege.”
We’re all familiar with white male privilege, but it’s quite another thing when the beneficiary is your partner — especially if he doesn’t recognize it. “We'd walk into stores, and at the checkout counter he’d always be addressed before me, even though I was standing in front of him,” one woman complained. “He was a 6-foot suit-wearing businessman in academia. [But] I'm in academia, too. He also got better loan rates, among other things.”

“It can be uncomfortable to discuss the experience of being profiled or followed around a store suspiciously,” says Erin Tillman, a “dating empowerment coach” known online as the Dating Advice Girl. “But it can be tough for people new to the POC (people of color) experience to believe and understand that everyday life experiences [for us] can include a mixture of emotions, anxiety and potential confrontations.”

However, psychologist and relationship expert Steven T. Griggs— who also happens to be my boyfriend’s father — offers some good news. “I know people who are from different cultures, are of different races, speak different languages and who have wonderful long-term relationships. I also know people of the same race, culture, relative intelligence and education who fight like cats and dogs. Why? What makes or breaks relationships are not the similarities and tastes. Rather, it’s the underlying dynamics of the partners in the relationship.”

And another woman I talked to agrees: “I‘ve been married to my husband for 20 years. There are small things that are different, but the respect, trust and love is what matters most. People staring and making comments doesn’t hurt. Going to the store and seeing the surprise and sometimes hateful look on the cashier’s face when she realizes we are together is sometimes funny, sometimes not. But with a relationship built on respect, we take it a day at a time. Nov. 6 will mark our 20th anniversary.”


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